Today I'm gonna be talking about segmentation. And yes, we've already done an episode on segmentation, but I want to do another one because I think it's really important to talk about what you do with segmentation, not just the segmentation itself. And I've been on a lot of calls with teams lately where we're sharing the insights that we've learned about their customer base.
We tell them what their different jobs to be done, their customers jobs to be done are, and then they're like, this is all amazing. What do we do with this? And a lot of teams just, we know that segmentation is important, but we don't act on it, or we get really meaningful segmentation, you know, for our customers, and we don't know what to do next.
And so I wanted to talk through what are some of the, like, very practical applications. Of customer segmentation. So as mentioned, yes, we have done an episode on segmentation before. We covered why not all customers are created equally. We talked about why founder intuition doesn't scale. Really the episode was about leveraging segmentation for scale and why you should care about that.
And we even sort of doubled down and, uh, produced a LinkedIn article about the specific differences. We got really specific about the differences between ideal customer profiles. So ICPs. Personas and jobs to be done with examples for each of them. So if you're interested in learning more about the differences between those ways of segmenting customers, I would highly recommend you check out that podcast episode or that LinkedIn article.
The point of this episode is once you have that understanding of, you know, your customer segmentation, then what can you actually do with it? So let's talk about, I guess, a good place to start would be why we should even care about customer segmentation. And this might seem obvious for some of you, but for others, you might be like, what's the big deal, right?
Like, I can't really implement all of these things. It sounds nice to have, but honestly, segmenting customers lets you do things like run really targeted marketing campaigns that get to, you know, the heart of the specific problem that you help solve. It helps you qualify and, really importantly, disqualify leads that may not be a fit for your solution and may be draining on, uh, you know, your customer support or things like that, right?
You'll also see improvements in engagement. Um, you can leverage things like win-back campaigns that really, again, are highly converting because they speak directly to what your customers need, and they're much more personalized. And even, you know, sales and expansion efforts as well become much more.
easier when you're leveraging customer segmentation. Well, when done right, customer segmentation can kind of give you that holy grail of reaching the right person at the right time with the right message and, you know, boosting just performance and conversion overall. So, customer segmentation is one of those things that everybody is a believer in customer segmentation.
Just not everybody is able to leverage it and take advantage of it. So, it is a good place to set the stage, particularly if you haven't seen the other episodes or checked out that LinkedIn article; I'm just going to talk a little bit about what customer segmentation is. So at its core, customer segmentation is the process of breaking down your customer base into smaller, more specific groups, generally that have common traits or behaviors.
So that you can create more personalized, impactful experiences for them. So that is what segmentation is. That said, you know, many things might come into your mind's eye when you think about segmentation. A lot of teams will use geographic location, right? Language, industry, or vertical. Uh, whether or not your customers need a low touch or a high touch.
Company size, team size, ICP. A lot of teams use ICP. As a way to segment based on some sort of like combination of demographic or firmographic data use cases. A lot of teams segment based on use case and a lot of teams use personas to segment their customer bases. And then our favorite, which is not going to be surprised to anybody who's familiar with our stuff is jobs to be done is our preferred method to at least start your customer segmentation sort of journey.
So, as you can see, segmentation means many different things in many different situations. And people tend to throw around this term of, you know, your own, you know, customer segmentation, and your customer segments. And it's really, really important to understand when somebody uses the term, especially like a consultant or somebody that you're working with, or a member of your team says.
Do you know what they mean by customer segment? So a good example might be, you know, if you're working with, um, ad specialists or a team that's doing like some outbound lead gen for you. And they say, like, we'll segment your customers. How are they going to segment your customers? Ask for specifics.
It's really, really important that you understand that because segmentation can get unruly, right? Because even from department to department, it can vary wildly, right? So often, marketing teams use slightly different segmentation criteria than sales teams, which use slightly different segmentation criteria from product teams.
Not to mention customer success teams. And so once you have different departments, obviously using different segmentation strategies, things can get really, really messy and also not very useful across the board. So it's really important that you are drawing meaningful lines between the different groups of your customers so that they're actually helpful.
But also that your teams have those same shared lines. If you are truly stuck on which segmentation is best for you, because I did list a lot of them there, I'd really recommend starting with jobs to be done. And the reason that I recommend starting with jobs to be done is because it really gets to the heart of what is motivating somebody to choose your solution, right?
What are the pushes that somebody is experiencing towards your solution? What are some of the anxieties that might be pulling them back? What leads them to seek out a solution like yours? So, jobs to be done for the uninitiated is the sort of approach and the methodology of the belief. What customers are hiring your product to do a job for them?
And so we find that starting with jobs to be done is a really helpful way to think about your customers because it is rooted in what motivates them to make a decision. From there, you can actually go back and look at the demographics, like job titles or firmographics. Company size or industry, you know, or even use cases because once you've done that, that sets you up to take full advantage of customer segmentation in a way that all of the areas of your business can take advantage of, right?
From the product team to the sales team, to the marketing team, to CS. So that is sort of segmentation in a nutshell. A lot was covered there, but really what I'm, you know, when, when I say customer segments, I'm talking about. the meaningful sort of segments and groupings of customers that allow you to make better decisions and allow your team to create better experiences that resonate more and are more highly converting and help you, you know, generate more business overall.
So now I want to talk about the very specific segmentation strategies and tactics, and this is what teams are really asking me for when they're like, thank you so much for identifying these jobs to be done and helping us think about, you know, the different demographic and firmographics of our ICP.
Thank you so much for helping us, you know, identify these different groups of customers. Now, what do I do? There are a lot of different directions that we can take, and I'm going to talk through them from the perspective of the customer journey. Now this isn't necessarily where I would start, and I will talk about where I would start, but I'm going to describe your customer's journey or your customer's experience from being out in the world experiencing the problem that your product helps them solve all the way through to retention and expansion and, and all of, you know, those things like high retention, amazing LT, high LTB, very, very happy lifer kind of customer.
Because that is the most straightforward way for you to think about the different functions of your business and how segmentation can impact teams, so I'm going to start with awareness level marketing and then the marketing that would include, like, let's say your website. In general, marketing teams are responsible for building awareness and driving awareness out in the world.
Qualified traffic to your website is needed to encourage people to either sign up for a demo or whatever. So I'll describe that as like awareness level. Marketing and, like, sort of mainstay, uh, what some people might think of as product marketing on a website, right? When you're describing your product and its value, product pages, and things like that,
So, first and foremost, think about your customers through these segments of jobs to be done. Okay. Um, now, of course, you can go demographic and vertical. That would also help you in figuring out the watering holes that your potential customers are hanging out in. Where might they be having conversations with their peers?
Where might they be learning about solving the problem that you help them solve? A really great tool for this is SparkToro. Full disclosure, we're friends with Rand and Amanda and Casey, and we've done some work for SparkToro in the past, but it is a truly, truly amazing tool for figuring out, again, once you have that segmentation, you know, criteria for your different groups of target customers, where are they hanging out?
What are the websites they go to? What are the podcasts they listen to? You know, what are the social networks that they hang out on most, uh, things like that? That will give you a lot of intel on where to run your ads, truthfully, right? And where to hang out, where to be. And not only where to be and where to hang out and how to run ads, but what do you say once you're there, what problems should you be focused on or solutions to those problems should you be focused on, you know, when you think about ads, let's say, so think about creating tailored campaigns in those, you know, wherever you discover they are hanging out.
Think about creating tailored campaigns that speak specifically to their job to be done, what they care about, the problem they're solving, the language they use, really leaning into the voice of the customer. And you can do that in your social posts, your ads, of course, your content in those ads, what you talk about online, and things like that, depending on where you're hanging out.
And then really importantly, another way to think about segmentation is to think about The place that you send that traffic to. So let's say you're running an ad campaign. You should not send that ad campaign to your homepage. That would be a totally lost opportunity. You have the opportunity. Now, if you've got these sort of closed loop marketing campaigns that you're running, you can send them to dedicated landing pages.
That speaks specifically to their challenges, right? The solutions they're firing in order to hire yours, leveraging their voice of customers. You can leverage this sort of captive and this segmented audience to really lean into their job to be done and the things that they care about, not only in the campaign, but in the landing page that you send.
Um, that campaign traffic too. And that's really, really important. Ideally, you would also be sending those, you know, uh, from that landing page, you would also be sending that traffic through to a segmented onboarding, but we'll talk about that in a second. So something else other than, you know, just your awareness level marketing and things like that is obviously content marketing, content marketing related to like segmented content marketing.
Could be an episode in and of itself. That is a massive, massive topic and a huge opportunity. If you've got a content marketer or content team, you will not need to explain to them the advantages of having segmentation and understanding the jobs to be done by your customers and the plethora of content ideas that are going to give them, um, we used to produce, we still produce these voice of customer briefs actually.
And it's basically the sort of nine different dimensions. That a, uh, like the themes and patterns that emerge in these conversations that we have with customers. And we often highlight in there the themes that show up those nine different dimensions. But another lens that we often look at these voice of customer briefs through is like content marketing opportunities.
Because there are so many interesting things that come up, content marketing could be a whole thing, but again, I don't think you're going to need to explain to a content marketer the advantage of segmentation and understanding jobs to be done. So then the other place that you might want to think about, which can be a little bit more challenging if I'm honest, is right; it's like your homepage on your website.
So, your website overall has a lot of opportunities to take advantage of segmentation strategies, but your homepage presents a unique challenge because your homepage is kind of like, this is such a cheesy expression, but like brand central station. So you will have all of the segments of your customers. Hopefully, there are not too many, land on your homepage.
And you're going to need to strike the balance on your homepage across these jobs to be done and across these different customer segments that show up. So this is a bit of a, you know, if the ad campaigns was like segmentation, you know, 101, your homepage, when you have different segments of customers that you serve is probably like a 201.
It's a little bit more advanced. There's definitely ways to do it because you will look for the patterns among. All of your segments and then you can even start to take advantage of different maybe sections on your homepage that speak a little bit more to one segment or another. There's lots of strategies.
I would highly recommend testing. And yeah, so that's all I'll say about homepage. I probably wouldn't start with your homepage. Your, your homepage is probably already trying to strike the balance across all of your customer segments, but it can definitely do a better job once you've got your customer segment information and that job to be done information.
Your homepage can definitely be more targeted to each of the segments. It's just, you've got to strike a balance there. A much more straightforward tactic when you're trying to lean into segmentation is definitely product pages. So dedicated product pages, depending on how you segment your customers, whether a job to be done or use case or, you know, whatever, maybe vertical.
I see a lot of websites with vertical or industry specific landing pages or product pages. And to be honest with you, I find those can be a little bit void of meaning and they feel a little bit repetitive. They feel like an SEO. you know, tactic, to be honest with you. And if you have not yet produced a bunch of these segmented product pages on your website, I would highly recommend producing them based on job to be done.
They are just going to be so much more powerful because they're really going to lean into all of the things that I said before, the, you know, the motivations, uh, comparing the competitive set and the, or the solution that they're firing, what's motivating them. You can address their anxieties. You can use their specific language and voice to really help them feel seen. They're so powerful these pages, so it definitely takes advantage of this more meaningful segmentation on different product pages on your website.
And then probably where I would start, I think my number one recommendation when teams ask me, like, what do we do with this segmentation or like, what do we do now that we have these, you know, three or four different customer segments, sometimes two or three. Ideally, what do we do? And what I always say to start with, my best and most favorite recommendation is to add a segmenting question to your signup flow or your demo request or whatever it is, whatever that primary CTA is on your website where you're capturing like an email address for the first time, ask a question like, Which best describes you?
And then, basically, you're going to represent the different segments in your answers. Ideally, it is, I mean, you might start with an open text field if you're really at like ground zero and you don't have a lot of segmentation information, but if you do know your customer's jobs to be done, then put a, you know, a small dropdown of a couple of the options and always, always, always include another that lets them type their answer if they don't feel represented in the one above.
So adding a segmentation question to your primary CTA on your website, whether it's a demo request, a free signup, or a trial start, can be really, really powerful. Even if you don't do anything with it, even if the only thing you do is capture that information and watch it roll in, I can guarantee you it's going to start to get really motivated after you start to see those patterns; you know, sort of emerge, and the different groups sign up, you're going to start to feel like, wow, our onboarding could be so much more powerful.
If we were offering segmented onboarding to each of these groups. And then that, of course, is my next recommendation, which is offer an onboarding experience for each customer segment, particularly if we're talking about jobs to be done, because jobs to be done or use case is really product specific, right?
So what they're trying to do? I mean, I say product specific, and what I mean by that is like, the features that they really care about, what you should show them, in what order, and when, um, and how, all will depend on their job to be done, but even actually before that, right, the solution that they need to fire in order to hire yours will differ an It generally differs wildly from one job to be done to another.
And so it puts you in a really amazing position to be able to send that first email to that customer that speaks specifically to their problems, specifically to the thing that they're struggling with, the old way, the habits that they've built up, that you get to address their anxieties, their motivations.
So powerful. I feel like a broken record. And your in app experience as well can do the same thing. Maybe it's your getting started guide, maybe there's a modal that you show them when they first get into the, into your product that can be more catered to, again, what they are trying to accomplish versus this generic experience that pretty well every team that we've ever worked with does.
And that's, that's not a knock on anybody. That's not a knock on you if that's what you're doing. But as soon as you've got more meaningful segmentation, you can be, you're like, There's money, you're leaving money on the table basically by sending people through a generic onboarding. So it's a really amazing opportunity, and you don't have to do it all at once, right?
You don't have to throw out your old onboarding and roll out all new. That would take months. What I typically recommend is to choose one customer segment, one job to be done to prioritize, and sort of start with. And then when somebody chooses that. Selection in your sign-up segmentation question, which best describes you.
You send those customers through to that segmented onboarding, and everybody else goes to your current onboarding. And then what's really interesting about that is you can see the differences between them. You can see. How one converts over the other, even though it's just a small percentage that might go through your segmented onboarding.
And then once you can build out your second job to be done, uh, onboarding, then you send your signups through to that onboarding, and you send everybody else through your generic, and so on and so forth. This, this is the process. does not need to be something that you do all at once. You can slowly roll it out.
And typically, I would say, I tend to recommend start with adding that segmentation question to your signup. And even if you do nothing else, just add the question. And then in the background, you can start to craft an onboarding flow, an in app and an email onboarding flow for one of those segments, your high priority segment.
And then again, just roll out your onboarding just to that group and send everybody else through your current onboarding. And so on and so forth. So hopefully you're picking up what I'm putting down here. This does not need to be a baby with the bath water situation. You can iterate and add over time. So that is how I would recommend basically rolling out segmentation on your website, your signup flow, and of course your product onboarding.
Now, of course, there are a bunch of other things that you could do as well, right? So, how you measure engagement and what features, as I mentioned, you would highlight for certain customer segments might be different. So, the way you measure a customer's engagement might differ from segment to segment.
It might not, but it could. And that's important for you to know. And that will be important for you to know for a lot of reasons, right? Like whether or not sales need to reach out or whether or not there's, you know, a customer education or customer marketing that might be really effective for one customer, uh, segment over another.
So there's all kinds of opportunities from a measuring engagement and like health and happiness of your customer base, but then additionally expansion. So using targeted sort of upsell and cross sell strategies that align again with their customer job to be done and their context is really, really powerful.
Okay. So I just talked about, by the way, this was the tip of the iceberg. There are a lot of other opportunities, but I just talked about awareness level marketing and your ad campaigns and your outreach. I talked about. Your marketing campaigns, content marketing. I talked about the landing pages that you send those marketing campaigns to.
I talked about your website, your homepage, your product pages, your signup flow, your product onboarding, your customer education, customer marketing, and even your expansion and sort of sales, inside sales opportunities. So I covered a lot. And to be honest, I, I, I got to stop there because I could go on and on and on.
There's a lot of other things that you can do, but again, if you're going to do nothing else, what I would recommend is the adding that question to your signup flow and collecting that information, doing that segmented onboarding experiences, rolling those out one segment at a time. And then probably after that, what I would do is dedicated product pages on your website  Your customer segments.
And then, you know, if your marketing team isn't responsible for all of that, they can be simultaneously, uh, you know, rolling out dedicated marketing campaigns out, uh, in the market as well. And sending that targeted traffic to those landing pages and into your product experience, your second, ideally segmented product onboarding experience as well.
So now that you've got all these ideas in your head about how you could roll this out, I want to talk about weird teams. Go wrong, and where I see teams go wrong a lot, and the number one thing that I have to say at the top of this list for sure is teams that learn stuff about their customers and then fail to act on this segmentation, right?
So teams identify meaningful customer segments, but don't take action and they don't implement the insights effectively, right? and they delay the rollout and the potential, you know, upside to this. They sort of, um, they feel like, and this kind of leads me to my, my next thing is that they feel like this is something that only big companies and sophisticated companies do.
The other thing that I see companies due to is failing to measure. So it's kind of the opposite problem where they're like, they go full born segmentation and they don't actually measure the impact. So let's say a landing page, right? So, they're not tracking their different marketing campaigns.
They're not tracking how their different segments are activating or engaging in their product. And they're not comparing, you know, the previous, the more generic experience, they're not measuring along the way, which can lead to a plethora of problems. One of the problems it can lead to is that you know, if it gets poorly executed, it could impact the performance.
Obviously, you have to be careful with these things, especially when you're talking about your website, particularly if you're talking about your homepage or your signup flow. You have to be really closely monitoring the performance of those things. But the other thing that can happen if you're not measuring is you aren't going to bring other stakeholders along for the ride with you, right?
Even if you're the founder and the CEO, and you're fully bought into this. If you are not tracking the differences of, uh, segmented campaigns over generic in any of these ways, um, that can lead to a lot of naysayers or people not really believing in the segmentation, particularly if they haven't seen the upside to, uh, segmenting.
So it's really re important. Proper measurement is really, really, I mean, Â that, that should be pretty obvious. My next one is over involving stakeholders. So implementing segmentation and involving too many people. It's almost the opposite problem. But what can sometimes happen if you involve too many people?
I'm trying to think of a specific scenario here, but what I'm trying to describe here is like, It can end up diluting the focus and the integrity of the insights. I've seen this happen a lot where, you know, product team is all in on this segmentation, really, really understands the differences between these customer jobs.
And then the segmentation gets passed off to sales or to marketing. And because of the muscle memory of these teams, they sort of go back to the old way and they sort of lose the differences between the different segments and they all kind of start to sound the same again. And the integrity of really what cuts at the core of these different segments ends up lost.
I see this a lot as well, unfortunately, with leadership teams where they have this sort of like fear of loss, where they see these really targeted campaigns or really targeted landing pages or really targeted homepage. And then they're worried about all the customers that they're ostracizing or not going to get because of this laser-focus segmentation that happens a lot as well.
So if you see yourself sort of falling into that, you know, just be aware that that can happen. It sort of dilutes, again, the value of segmentation at all. Okay, and then segmenting, uh, experiences that fail to lose sight of the specific jobs to be done. I think I just mentioned this one. So including unnecessary elements in the landing page, uh, you know, where they're like, well, what about this feature?
And what about that? Feature and, like, actually, this customer job doesn't really care all about that feature. And, you know, save that for this other customer segment over here or save that for later in the customer experience, depending on the asset, uh, that you're describing, right? If it's a homepage or a landing page, you don't have to break out all the toys in the toy box.
Not every customer job to be done or customer segment will care equally about the different features of your products. That's really important as well. Another one that I will mention is the lack of prioritization by the sort of product or engineering teams or tech teams, right? So, segmentation often falls off the priority list for engineering teams or product teams that are more focused on feature rollouts that reach parity with competing products or just the roadmap of things that need to be fixed.
Engineering and product teams priority lists are a highly contentious places. And oftentimes segmentation will not make the cut. And that is really, really hard. And that will take leadership, um, to really see the value of rolling out segmentation, taking advantage of the product as it exists today.
That's a big advantage to segmentation, right? We're getting a lot more laser-focused on that messaging and positioning. You know, is going to resonate with the customers that really care about your solution. You don't need any engineering time once that initial segmentation is set up and available to the marketing team or the product team in order to sort of leverage, there's no more features that you need to build, you're actually just doing a better job of articulating the value of your current product, and it requires no more engineering time as long as you can roll out it.
You know, segmented onboarding or dedicated pages on the website or dedicated landing pages, all of which I've seen teams hit technical limitations on, which just shouldn't be the case. Honestly, it's marketing's job and often product team's job with onboarding to take advantage of the current markets opportunity.
And that can sometimes be contentious against a product or engineering teams where, um, they're a little bit more future-focused. So if you're a, you know, a CEO or founder that's really focused on taking advantage of the opportunities that you have in the market today, I would definitely say. Float segmentation up on the priority list for your team because it is going to let you do more with less.
It's going to let you do more with the marketing you're already doing. Um, right. Raising the conversion rates on your trial to paid or your free-to-paid conversion makes all of the spendings that you're sending on marketing so much higher. You know, ROI, uh, it's worth so much more to your business.
If you can actually increase that child to peak conversion rate or increase that retention rate, because you're implementing these more. Advanced segmentation strategies and tactics. Technical challenges are just sort of across the board. I made a big list of all the things that I see happen. Technical limitations, just kind of like litter the, this list a little bit.
Okay, dilution of the segments is definitely something that I see happen a lot as well. But then technical limitations, which really pains me because honestly, it's 2025. There is no reason for a software company, a tech company, not to be able to roll out segmented product onboarding or not to be able to enable the marketing team to roll out dedicated product pages or dedicated landing pages.
There should be no technical limitations basically in taking advantage. Of segmentation, but oftentimes it happens. So I would just say like, be on the lookout for that. And at the end of the day, it is going to be a matter of, if you are the founder of the CEO, it's going to be a matter of you articulating and you prioritizing it, because if you do the rest of your team will.
as well. Okay. So, I've talked a lot about why segmentation is so valuable. I've talked about how to think about segmentation and the different ways that teams might segment. And I've talked a lot about the different segmentation tactics that you can take advantage of. And I also, of course, talked about some of the pitfalls that I see teens go through.
If you are interested in taking advantage of segmentation and leveraging some segmentation, these are the steps that you need to follow. Okay. So, first and foremost, identify your best and most recent customers from whom to learn. Do some jobs to be done research. This can mean just 10 to 12 jobs to be done.
Interviews, of course, have to be done well. I would highly recommend hiring a professional to run those interviews for you. And yes, we do that, but it doesn't have to be us. Just any professional can run interviews well because interviews are very difficult to run well. So run that jobs to be done research.
and identify your, you'll generally identify about three to five jobs to be done. Sometimes teams will prioritize one job to be done. And you know, if that's your situation, fantastic. You don't even, it's like you don't even need to worry about the segmentation, just laser focus on that one job to be done.
And Bob's your uncle, everything should focus on that. But if you are in the situation that many teams find themselves in where they want to prioritize two or three different customer groups, then identify those two. Two or three jobs to be done that you want to prioritize and then get really clear on that ICP data related back to that job to be done.
So you can sort of look back at those different jobs to be done and get really clear on like the job titles, the industries, the company size, what is the ICP data again, ideal customer profile, uh, those demographics and firmographics that actually roll into those jobs to be done. And then communicate that to the rest of the team, clearly communicate your target segments to the rest of your team, to the team that's very, very, very, very, very important because they are the ones that are going to take action.
And some of the ways that they might decide to take action is in your ads. In your marketing campaigns with those dedicated landing pages, obviously your website messaging, your sign-up flow, and adding that segmentation question, I would definitely start with that one. Segmented customer onboarding, of course, uh, segmented customer marketing and expansion, or sales outreach if you run product-led sales.
All of those things are going to be so much more powerful. If you've done this in a meaningful way and identified meaningful customer segments. So I hope that that was a helpful sort of deep dive on segmentation strategies and tactics that you can take advantage of. And obviously if you need any help, feel free to reach out to us.
You can reach out to me directly on LinkedIn. Uh, you can find me at Gia at Forget the Funnel. And, of course, go to forgetthefunnel.com to find information about how to work with us. But of course, the show notes are in our resource library as well. If you want to find any of those links to the previous episode, we did a segmentation for scale.
The differences between ICP and personas and jobs to be done in different examples, if you're interested in, in sort of going back and looking more at that. But I hope that that was helpful and gave you tons of ideas for, uh, things that you can implement and, uh, you know, just to improve the customer experience and improve performance overall.
And really critically, Take advantage of the opportunities that you have today without thinking about and investing in more product development, the opportunities that you currently have, right? Get more out of the marketing that you're already doing, get more out of the traffic that you're already sending to your website or that your marketing team is already out in the world, you know, trying to spread the good word about what you do.
Okay. And with that, we will see you next time. Thanks all. And that's it for this episode of the Forget the Funnel podcast. Thanks for tuning in. If you have any questions about the topic that we covered, don't hesitate to reach out on LinkedIn, or you can visit our website at forgetthefunnel. com. Also, if you found this episode helpful, don't forget to subscribe and help spread the word by leaving a rating or a review.
Okay. See you next time.
